原文抄录
口述人：余先堂（女，1926年出生，湖北省随州市殷店镇钓鱼台村村民）
采访人：章梦奇（女，1987年出生，草场地工作站驻站者）
采访时间：2010年8月12日
采访地点：钓鱼台村，余先堂家中
我：奶奶你叫什么名字啊？
余：余仙堂，余，这一个人字，这……
我：你今年多大了？
余：82岁
我：你有没有吃过树皮
余：是的，吃树皮、吃杂草。在那水利上，那58年、59年。在那水利上就是你们那高头，有个水利库。那王德新个鬼，他在那儿捡一挑子人屎回来了，他就把那（粪）筐摆摆、搞搞。他就捞一挑子渣草上去，他们煮着吃。把那榔树全打死了的，吃那榔树皮。榔树皮，吃好吃，吃得人就发肿。
我：你吃过吗？你有没有吃过？
余：吃。
我：你也吃了？
余：嗯。他们打完走了，把树割了啥，他不割打不够啥。割了打完了那高头就剩下那个干干，剩下点点，磨磨剩下这么大个篓娃，打了一篓娃回来。我还有个婆子啥，我的妈就放在碗里椿啊椿，椿了我下到那个米汤中里，几好吃哦！就简直找不到有几好吃，又糍鼓、又好吃。吃了两天把我吃肿了。我的婆子看把我吃肿了，说吃不得你吃肿球了。
我：那个时候你们家有几口人？
余：一个娃，一个妈，一个婆子。4个人，我的两个人。
我：你们还种地吗？种粮食吗？
旁女：那在集体，种公家的地再生产队，在集体。
余：在生产队哦。
旁男：这个娃子，想都想得到。
余：你的爷爷啊？你的爷爷也听不到了啊？
我：嗯，听不到了，早就听不清了。
余：那边还有一个老头，那简直就听不见，那你简直还要带扩音器。那他远不远
旁女：不远，在那头……
我：谢谢你。
旁女：讲造孽，你的爷爷就造孽，他那整个一家都造孽。你想，她的爸爸，他的奶奶死得早啊。
余：你的姥姥啊跟我俩人啊简直只当就是一个人。你的姥姥，老奶奶（太奶奶）。你奶奶死了嘛，你爸爸，你们那一窝子都是你老人扶大的撒。那几造孽。
我：她怎么死的啊？
旁：叫你爷爷把那时候的袄子拿出来看下，那几造孽。
我：我奶奶是怎么死的啊？
余：咳嗽，气管炎。她简直吃了吃不来饭。造孽跑到园子去搞了一巴掌青菜。煮着一个人盛一碗。搞两颗颗饭中里。没得吃的。
我：她几几年死的？
余：那我就搞不清楚她几几年死的。反正58年59年，你奶奶在。她跟那相人来，那我还有点吃的撒，煮饭哦弄得她吃了喜咪。我到她那去了她喜得没得门，造孽说：妹啊，我这怎么对得起你哦。我说：姐姐你莫跟那样说。我说我只吃点青菜我不要你的饭。我说我只吃你一点菜我不吃你的饭，我瞄她那么造孽。把点饭一搅赶到她的碗里，她的碗里又赶到我的碗里，我的碗里又赶到她的碗里。老头说你们俩一慌着饭泼球了碗打了一个都吃不成。你的老爷爷嘴蛮糙巴，他就跟那样说，说我们潦草，带料子，带外姱。他说我赶你奶奶碗里，你奶奶又赶我的碗里，赶得赶泼了碗打了，跟她俩一个都吃不成了。
我：我没见过我奶奶，我奶奶长什么样？
余：那你没见过哦。她是……我算算，6……6几年死的，不是61年就是62年死的。那你怎么见过，你没出生嘛你怎么见过。
我：她长什么样？
旁：她的奶奶不是姓白嘛
那58年，兴起了浮夸风，滥夸滥吃。你赶集你走人家，你走得累不过，你在这个地儿玩，在这儿玩他这儿的饭熟了，比如他这儿是个食堂。你玩完了你也坐在这儿吃，他玩了他也坐在这儿吃。你玩到他那去了就做在那吃，滥吃，一下把那粮食瞎吃滥吃，吃了的。吃了就把那个⋯⋯粮食，食堂也散，上头又没来供应。那末了没得门儿了，那饿死了的几个人呢，末了就上级，周转，周转粮，往转回。卖的粮食又往转回，回来。回来又分了老百姓吃，就没有饿死人了。情况就是这么个情况。
你大伯把你引到一个聋子这来，又聋又看不见59年我20几，就住在这个茬，在卫生室里搞（工作），我是个赤脚医生。买糠吃，我捎三斤，捎过细。我那时候在西坡。在西坡哟，国家整谷，多年的粮食全在那儿，屋里全装满了。就在屋里搭机子，只磕个壳出来，米腾出来弄走了。我跩（蹲）在那个地上，瞄着那个地下，风一吹噢。那白粒粒的，看有那么一团娃的米。我就不服劲，我就跑回去。我就搞了两三个人，把两三个人，我说我们去西坡筛，筛碎米。我说你们一个人上，一个人铲。好，把来三个人，把石槐云哩⋯⋯石槐云。我会筛那个大筛子，这么大个筛子。高头扎三折页，扎三个叉叉子，底下绑个绳。我会筛。我也筛了不少啊，筛了几百斤哦，筛了后我攒了个大缸。装⋯⋯装两三百斤的缸，攒了一缸么。我那筛了一缸。筛了给石槐云一家，我的一家。也没受到饿，还不仅没饿着，还没受到饿。
那马大顺，马大顺他的老头是饿死了，马大顺还是岁把。造孽他的妈抱在怀里，他的妈病了，我又给他妈打针、摆治。坐在床上饿得哭，我跑去瞄下，我说他饿了，他的姐姐也没多大，有这么高。8、9岁，过了11、2岁，加他（才）岁把。我说你煮点稀饭他吃，她说那还有个糠米啊。我叫，跑到食堂去找，找炊事员，找那，那不是有师傅长么。我说你称两斤米汤，我说马上这个娃子就饿死了。颈子就耷拉着嘴就是流水。好，秤了两斤米，我就跟它拎着。我说这你细点煮着吃，一回抓两把放锅里熬着。我说你跟我一路在我的屋里去，我挖点糠回来镶在里面。她说不来，我说走啥。她这才起了跟着我，挖了这大疙瘩糠把（给）了她。我说你抓两把米下点糠煮好点镶点糠中哩。煮得要滚镶你就下点里面，莫镶早了，镶早了煮不熟啥，把她救住了（后来）她还死了的。
那我的亲家母，叫洪云芳，男的叫张王名，那头渠的，在你们那高头，那儿修在高头有田堰地大堰，那田堰湾儿。那时候你没回来（她认错人）。我的媳妇，那时候她才只十⋯⋯十二，十三、四岁。在屋里把枕头里的糠倒了，放在锅里炒，炒了戳。戳了，那个小娃么直晓得饿不过，撑着个锅吃，撑着锅里吃。吃了造孽屙不出来，肛门都屙出来了，肛门涩涩地。我弄那个那个，弄了个勺儿慢慢往出里捞，用钥匙慢慢往出扒，扒出来了。拔出来以后我的亲家母嘛，就说我怎么了她的娃儿噢，把（可能）她女儿说了我。我那个（老伴），他还在。那年我的老亲妈，我的小女儿都在。
那时候一个人一天二两谷，在那个石头磨上剔，这么大个石头磨子，放那剔，剔成了谷粉。放在锅里搅着煮着吃。3个月发一次，2两油。59年就是一人一个月2两谷。
那个艾元英的“六儿”（儿子）。造孽。没得么斯把说：我的子，把那一节油票把了给那嫲嫲。把了我。我说：你杀了我我也不得要你一节，杀我一刀我也不得要你一节油票啊。我把你一节油票吃了等于杀人。两个月一个人才只2两油。那我跟你的吃了咋搞！我没要，没要了她身上也没得钱，我又把我的身上捞了一块钱把了他。我说你妈造孽待月哩。管两顿香的，管它么下点面把一点油中里，她吃了舒服点撒。她临死的时候把她儿子的手抓着，你莫把你的余嫲嫲忘记了哦，我把这故事说你听，我没得钱把她接生费。把了一节油票，把了她还不要倒把一块钱我，叫你哥哥换点油回来，我待月里吃。那几造孽，几残忍呢。
我好跑、好串门。齐家发的妈跟我一样，别人叫她“跑妈”。齐家发的老头和妹妹都是59年饿死了。这个三队的情况。四队饿死了钟爱庆，头天晚上我瞅他瘦得剩下个签，就带了瓶葡萄糖去，给他打针。我把瓶盖嚼下来，他就死了。四队可能就是饿死了他，五队饿死了余劲宽，六队还没有饿死啥个，我们七队也没有饿死啥个。那时候我的媳妇才12、3岁，小娃么，简直饿不过了。就在屋里把枕头里的糠倒了出来，放到锅里炒。抄抄戳戳，饿得急不过了就爬到那个锅上、撑着锅吃。吃了嘛就造孽屙不出屎，差点把肛门都屙出来了啊。我弄了个勺慢慢帮她往出掏，她那个肛门涩涩地，我又用钥匙慢慢往出扒，才扒出来了。后来我的亲家母还不高兴，说我亏待了她的娃儿，不给点好得她吃。那时候我的那个他，还在。我的老母亲、我的小儿子都在。
那马大顺一家，马大顺的老头就是饿死了的，那时马大顺还只有岁把。她妈把他抱在怀里。造孽哦，他妈还生病了。我就去给他妈打针、摆治。他饿得就坐在那个床上哭，我跑去瞄，他说他饿了，颈子耷拉着嘴里还流口水。他还有个姐姐，也没多大，8、9岁。我叫他妈给他煮点稀饭吃，他妈说那还有糠米啊。我就跑到食堂去找炊事员，没找到，看到了师傅长就让他称两斤米汤，我说有个娃子马上就要饿死了。好，称了两斤米，我就拎回他家了。我让他妈跟我一起去我家舀点糠，一次抓一两把，下到米里一块煮，这样能吃得久一点。她好意思去，磨蹭了好久才起身。当时是把她们给就住了，后来她还是死了。
那58年兴起了浮夸风，滥夸滥吃。那时候食堂散，你要是赶集、走人家，走得累不过就在这个地儿歇。比如他这儿有个食堂，你到这来了留这吃，他到这来了也留这吃。改明他去你那了也留在你那的食堂吃，就这样瞎吃、滥吃，一下子就把那食堂的粮食吃没了。上头又没有供应，不就饿死人了呢。末了没门儿了上级就周转，周转粮，往回转。把用来买的粮食又转回来分给老白姓吃，就没有饿死人了，就是这么个情况。你现在访这个还有什么个益处呢？
59年就是一人一个月2两谷那个艾元英的“六儿”（儿子）。造孽，要把一节油票给我，（我）那哪能要哦，杀了我也不得要，我要她一节油票等于杀人啊。那时候肚子饿得没门就去挖榔树皮，榔树皮好吃是好吃，吃得人就发肿。我们去山上把树割开，打上面的的皮。树都被打完了啊，就剩高头的一点点的那个干干。剩下那么一篓筐，打回来了，我妈就放到碗里椿啊椿，然后下到米汤里煮。简直不知道有多好吃哦！又糍鼓又好吃。吃了两天就把我吃肿了，我婆婆看我吃肿了就说吃不得了吃不得了，你都肿起来了。
还有一次我在西坡，刚好国家整顿谷子。多年的粮食全在那儿，屋里全装满了。那些人在屋里搭起机器，把谷壳和米粒分离开，米粒都被腾走了，壳被扔出来了。我就蹲在那个门口，瞄着底下的谷壳，心里想，要是我有这么多粮食该多好哦！突然风一吹，地上出现了一团团白粒粒的点子，全是碎米渣。我一想，不服劲，就跑回去找来两三个人来筛碎米。我们一个筛一个铲，好像找来了石槐云还有一家是谁记不得了。我会筛那个大筛子，上面折三页，扎三个叉叉子，底下再绑上绳子。我筛了不少啊！我攒了一大缸，还分给了他们两家，这才有吃的了。我才没饿着啊。那时候我家有四口人呢。
English Transcript
Interviewee: Yu Xiantang, Female (b. 1926)
Interviewer: Zhang Mengqi (b. 1987)
Date: 2010-08-12
Location: Diaoyutai Village, Hubei Province
Transcription
Zhang: What’s your name, grandma?
Yu: Yu Xiantang.
Zhang: How old are you?
Yu: 82.
Zhang: Did you eat tree bark?
Yu: Yes, I ate tree bark and weeds. When we were at the dam, which was near your place, Wang Dexin’s job was to collect human feces, so he used the feces basket to scoop up weeds from the water. They would boil the weeds to eat. They also cut trees and ate the bark. They tasted well but would cause edema disease.
Zhang: Did you eat the bark?
Yu: Yes.
Zhang: You ate too?
Yu: Yes. They cut trees and left. They had to cut the trees otherwise there wouldn’t be enough for them. We then scraped what they left and also took home a basket of bark. My grandma was still alive back then. My mom pounded the bark in a bowl and added to the rice soup. It tasted so good! However, in several days, I became swollen, so my grandma told me to stop eating that.
Zhang: How many people were there in your family during that time?
Yu: My kid, my mom, my grandma, and me. Four people.
Zhang: Were you still farming? Planting grain?
A (Female, Identity unknown): It was collective. We were only farming for the collective.
Zhang: You were at the production team?
B (Male, Identity unknown): This kid can think.
Yu: How about your grandpa? Can he hear clearly?
Zhang: No, he can’t. He became hard of hearing long time ago.
Yu: There is another old man over there. He almost cannot hear anything. You may even need to bring a speaker. Does he live faraway?
A: Not faraway. Just over there.
Zhang: Thank you.
A: Talking about poor life. Your paternal grandpa, as well as his whole family, was so hapless. Her dad, his grandma passed away very early.
Yu: Your maternal grandma and I were very close. Your paternal grandma passed away. Your dad and his siblings were raised by his dad. So unfortunate.
Zhang: How did she die?
A: Ask your grandpa to show you their clothes back then.
Zhang: How did my paternal grandma die?
Yu: Coughing and Tracheitis. She couldn’t eat any rice. Once (when I went to visit her) she found two small slices of green vegetables in a garden, cooked them and put each on a bowl of rice. Food was so scarce back then.
Zhang: When did she die?
Yu:I don’t remember. Around 1958 or 1959. When she was around, I still had some spare food. That time (when I visited and her and she got the green vegetables), my visit made her so happy. (Seeing the scarcity of the food) she said to me, “Little sister, I’m sorry this is all I could offer you.” I said, “That’s fine. Don’t even think about it.” I knew she did not have much food, so I told her I would only eat the vegetables. I scooped some rice into her bowl, but she put it back into mine. We repeated that for several times until your grandpa shouted at us,“If you keep doing that, you’d spill the food on the ground! Then neither of you could eat anything.” That’s very typical of your grandpa. He was very blunt.
Zhang: I have never met my grandma. What did she look like?
Yu: That’s true. She…Let me calculate. She passed away either in 1961 or 1962. Of course you’ve never met her. She passed away before you were even born.
Zhang: What did she look like?
A: Isn’t Bai her grandma’s family name?
Another interview
Yu: In 1958 extravagance became a common practice. If you went to another place, either for a market or for leisure, and stayed there for a rest, when food was ready at their communal canteen, you could also joined them and eat. There were so many similar cases and people ate food without much regulation and in a very wasteful way. All of a sudden, almost all food were gone…The canteen had to be demolished. However, the higher levels of government did not supply us additional grain. In the end, without enough food, some people starved to death. Such cases eventually raised attention from the higher levels of government and they supplied us grains to prevent more people from dying of starvation. The grains that we sold to them were then sent back to us, and no more people died of starvation. This was roughly how it was back then.
Your uncle took you here, to a deaf person. Deaf and blind.
I was twenty-something in 1959. I was living here, working at the local health center as a barefoot doctor.1
I was living in Xipo during that time. When the state asked the local government to hand in the grains, the grains that had been reserved for many years were stored in a big room in Xipo. A machine was set up in that room to husk the rice and the processed rice would be shipped away. I was squatting in the room and staring on the floor. When a wind blew, I saw lots of white rice grains. Therefore I called several people, including Shi Huaiyun, and told them to sift rice with me in Xipo. I know how to use those large sifters. In the end we obtained around several hundred Jin of rice and stored them in large vats, each with two to three hundred Jin. I took one vat home and Shi Huaiyun took one too. Because of this, we did not starve much during the famine.
Ma Dashun, his old man died of starvation. Ma Dashun was still an infant. His poor mom was still carrying him in her arms. Once, her mom got sick, so I went there and gave her treatment. Ma Dashun was sitting on the bed, crying because of hunger. I went to check on him, and told his mom that he was starving. His elder sister was still quite young too, only this tall, around 8 or 9 years old, maybe 11 or 12. I told her to cook some congee for him. She said they still had some brown rice, so she and I went to the canteen and found the head cook. I asked him to get two Jin of rice, telling him that the kid would soon die of starvation, as his neck couldn’t support his head and his mouth was drooling. After taking the rice home, I told her to cook the rice with care: divide the rice and put separate batches into the pot. I also told her to come to my place and get some bran. She refused in the beginning, but I insisted, so she came with me and got a handful of bran. I told her not to add the bran until the water boiled, otherwise it could not be thoroughly cooked. This saved her life, even though later she still passed away.
My son’s mother-in-law is called Hong Yunfang and his father-in-law is called Zhang Wangming. They live near your place where the big weir is. You were not back home yet that time (she mistook Zhang for someone else). My daughter-in-law, she was only 12, 13 or 14 years old. She poured out the bran in the pillow and stir-fried it. She was so young and couldn’t bear hunger, so she climbed up to the stovetop and ate it all. Poor girl. After eating that she could not poop at all. I used a little spoon and a key to slowly scoop the shit out of her. Later in order to thank me for saving her daughter’s life, her mom gave her to me (as my daughter-in-law). My husband was still around that year. So were my mom and my youngest daughter.
Back then each person was rationed to two Liang of cereal every day. We would mill the grain into powder on a big stone grind, then mix the powder with water and cook the mixture. Every three months we could get two Liang of oil. In 1959 everyone can only get two Liang of cereal every month. Ai Yuanying’s son was very unfortunate. Once (after I delivered her son) she said to her eldest boy, “Go and get Aunt Yu an oil ration coupon.” I said, “I wouldn’t get a single oil coupon from you, even if you killed me. Taking an oil coupon from you is equal to killing you. Everyone can only get two Liang of oil every two month. How could you live if I took yours?” Therefore I didn’t take it. Moreover, she had no money with her, so I gave her son one Yuan and told him, “You mom just gave birth to a baby, so she is very weak. Get some oil with the money and make her two good meals. Cook her some noodles with the oil. She will feel much better.” Before she passed away, she held his son’s hand, telling him, “Don’t you dare forget about your Aunt Yu. Let me tell you this story. I couldn’t pay her midwife fee, so I wanted to give her an oil coupon. Not only did she refuse to take the coupon, she even gave me one Yuan and asked your elder brother to get home some oil for my nutrition.” How poor. How wretched.
I love to visit different families. Qi Jiafa’s mom was just like me, and she was called “Running Mom”. Qi Jiafa’s dad and younger sister died of starvation in 1959. This was what happened to Team No.3. Zhong Aiqing from Team No. 4 starved to death. The day before his death, I saw him as skinny as a stick, so I brought a bottle of glucose to see him, planning on give him a shot. However, he died when I just opened the bottle. Probably he was the only one from Team No. 4 who died. Yu Jinkuan from Team No. 5 starved to death. No one from Team No. 6 died of starvation. Nor did anyone from our Team No. 7. My daughter-in-law was only 12 or 13 years old. She poured out the bran in the pillow and stir-fried it. She was so young and couldn’t bear hunger, so she climbed up to the stovetop and ate it all. Poor girl. After eating that she could not poop at all. I used a little spoon and a key to slowly scoop the shit out of her. Later in order to thank me for saving her daughter’s life, her mom gave her to me (as my daughter-in-law). My husband was still around that year. So were my mom and my youngest son.
Ma Dashun, his old man died of starvation. Ma Dashun was still an infant. His poor mom was still carrying him in her arms. Once, her mom got sick, so I went there and gave her treatment. Ma Dashun was sitting on the bed, crying because of hunger. I went to check on him, and told his mom that he was starving. His elder sister was still quite young too, only this tall, around 8 or 9 years old, maybe 11 or 12. I told her to cook some congee for him. She said they still had some brown rice, so she and I went to the canteen and found the head cook. I asked him to get two Jin of rice, telling him that the kid would soon die of starvation, as his neck couldn’t support his head and his mouth was drooling. After taking the rice home, I told her to cook the rice with care: divide the rice and put separate batches into the pot. I also told her to come to my place and get some bran. She refused in the beginning, but I insisted, so she came with me and got a handful of bran. I told her not to add the bran until the water boiled, otherwise it could not be thoroughly cooked. This saved her life, even though later she still passed away.
In 1958 extravagance became a common practice. If you went to another place, either for a market or for leisure, and stayed there for a rest, when food was ready at their communal canteen, you could also joined them and eat. There were so many similar cases and people ate food without much regulation and in a very wasteful way. All of a sudden, almost all food were gone…The canteen had to be demolished. However, the higher levels of government did not supply us additional grain. In the end, without enough food, some people starved to death. Such cases eventually raised attention from the higher levels of government and they supplied us grains to prevent more people from dying of starvation. The grains that we sold to them were then sent back to us, and no more people died of starvation. This was roughly how it was back then.
What good can you do through asking about this? In 1959 everyone can only get two Liang of cereal every month. Ai Yuanying’s son was very unfortunate. She once wanted to give me an oil ration coupon. I did dare to receive it, even if I got killed. Taking an oil coupon from her was equal to killing her. Back then when we got too hungry, we would scrape tree bark. It tasted good but would make you swollen. We went to the mountain and cut the tree for the bark. Most trees were already cut by others, with only some trunks left. After we took home a basket of bark, my mom would pound the bark in a bowl and then boil it in the rice soup. You had no idea how delicious it tasted. However in two days, I got swollen. However, in several days, I became swollen, so my grandma told me to stop eating that.
Once when I was living in Xipo, the state asked the local government to hand in the grains. The grains that had been reserved for many years were stored in a big room in Xipo. A machine was set up in that room to husk the rice. The processed rice would be shipped away, while the husks were left. I was squatting in the room and staring on the husks on the floor, thinking if only I could have all the grain. When wind blew, I saw lots of white rice grain. Therefore I called several people and told them to sift rice with me in Xipo. We each had a sifter and a scoop. I called Shi Huaiyun and another family who I do not remember. I know how to use those large sifters and obtained lots of rice. In the end I got a big vat of grain, and shared some with those two families. Because of this, I did not starve. There were four member in my family.
