原文抄录
被访人：贾福田, 男，1936年生，河北省衡水杨家庄村
采访人：贾楠楠
采访时间：2010年8月10日
采访地点：贾夫勇家
采访时长：54分06秒
贾福田：我从小生在长春，八九岁开始念书，上了三年小学，后来因为那时候生活条件不太好，国民党的时候，就不上了，当时是什么原因呢？就是这个学费那个学费，也是跟现在一样，学费多，就说别上了，上不起。那时候条件不像现在条件这么好。上了三年小学，后来就不念了，不念了就在家里帮我二哥、大哥，那时候我父亲在家，我们几个有一辆大车，马车，在长春拉脚。那时候还没有汽车拖拉机呢，就是马车，就跟着车跑火车，拉脚。
贾楠楠：拉出租？
贾福田：也不叫拉出租，那时候没有出租车，都是拉货，大马车。到了47年长春被困，长春市里是国民党，郊外是八路军，八路军在长春没有动武，就把你困着投降。
贾楠楠：当时您多大？
贾福田：47年我还没有十岁呢。我是36年生人，36年到47年，11岁了。长春被困，市郊是八路军，市内是国民党，市里的日用品、乱七八糟的东西都得靠农村里进来啊，不让你进，粮食、蔬菜就是不让你进，困着让长春投了降。我是阳历三月份从长春逃出来的，那时长春市民就好像是一阵风似的，都逃难了，奔老家了。在长春那边的人啊，山东的多，咱们河北的少，河北的也不少，但没有山东的多，有房产的卖卖，有东西的卖卖，都逃难了。反正47年那阵我是三月份逃出来的，那时候逃出来的时候八路军还照进八路军还照出，那时候困长春的时候还不太紧呢，你出来八路军还欢迎。可那时候国民党呢不照出，国民党那时候腐败，捅个钱，找个人，就把你送出来就完了。八路军那时候还欢迎，就出来了。出来的时候你老爷爷那时候有点家产，有点房产，房产卖了还没要钱，卖给我一个表哥了，那时候叫他回来他不回来。那时候一困长春东西就不值钱了，卖不了，就说交给你算了，你又没房，他就搬到那儿去了。当时说是说，我记得是个七，是七十万还是七万咱不知道，国民党那个货币，反正是个七。房产就交给他了。我们就把东西能卖的卖了，我记得买了三个马，买了两辆车，就从长春出来了。我们出了长春以后就奔关里，也不用打听道，那国道上乘风似得都往那儿走，走了四十多天才走到家。一路上有走的时候，有坐火车的时候。那时国民党地区还有火车，我记得我们从长春走，一直走到铁岭，那一段都是八路军地区，铁岭那儿还没解放呢，走到铁岭就能坐火车，八路军地区还没有火车，从铁岭坐到沈阳，又在沈阳待了几天，又坐到新民县，沈阳西边有个新民县，到了新民县往这边又是八路军了，一直到了另一个城市（名字记不清了），还没解放，就从那儿坐火车一直坐到天津，本来想在天津落下脚，不往家来了，天津那时候乱的时候也是不好找事儿，找个饭碗都费劲，那时我还小呢，有你二爷爷和他大爷爷他们，就说上北京去吧。北京那时候有我一个姑，四姑，是李家庄的，她在北京，就投奔到她那儿去了，看看能不能找个事儿，但找不着，找个饭碗都找不着，就这么从北京回来了。从北京回来的时候多少还有点家产，雇的人家大骡子车，那时候我们的车早就卖完了。雇的大骡子车，从天津那会儿一直到家，这是一路，走了四十多天。也走也歇着，也坐火车也步行。
贾楠楠：回来了以后呢？
贾福田：回来以后合着老辈还没分家，就跟你爷爷把这家产分了分，分给了我们一半，老宅那边东边是我们的院，西边那院子是你们的。……（此处省去不相关内容）
贾福田：回来分了家了以后，我们在家待了二年多，我们就又回长春去了。回了长春去以后，回长春那年是51年，47年回来的，49年解的放，解放以后大概51年我们就回去了，回长春待了两年，后来那时候我跟我哥哥做点买卖，那时候税务局光找去，那时候户口还没动呢，说算了吧，搬家，一家连户口带人都迁到北京去了，在北京落下户了。52年年底到的北京，在长春就待了二年，在北京后来就扎了根落了脚了。在北京干什么呢？我在北京蹬了六年三轮车，北京那时候还没有公共汽车呢，就人力三轮车，拉脚，拉人。后来我是58年离开的北京。怎么离开的北京呢？跟咱们得信仰有关系。因为咱们信天主教。我离开北京市58年4月28号，离开北京以后当时给我定的罪名就是思想反动，其实啊就是对宗教政策不满，这个我就不跟你讲了，你也不是很懂。反正就是对宗教政策不满，给我扣上了思想反动，劳动教养，后来就离开北京了。劳动教养给我发配到哪儿去了呢？发配到清河农场，天津东边一点，有一块荒地，火车路过那儿在津山线上，路过的那个站叫茶淀车站，在茶淀西边有一片荒地，苇塘，北京公安局就在那儿开辟了一片农场，把我发配到那儿去了，在那儿待了七年，然后回到家来了。我是69年回到家来的，到现在，41年了。我在逃难的时候发生过这么一件事，走到锦州，东边有个大凌河，大凌河东边就是八路军地区，大凌河西边就是国民党，大凌河那个桥早已经炸烂了，根本走不了火车，也走不了汽车，就是铁道桥，没有路桥，在铁道上爬那个桥，那个桥上一般人还不敢走，当地老乡把铁道那个桥使铁丝啊枕木啊之类的绑了绑，能走，能过那人。我们就爬那个桥，那时候还小。那个桥还挺宽，上来下去，反正能走人，但胆小的还不敢走，说站着走他不敢，爬着过桥，那个地方当地老乡还有背人的，比如老太太走也不敢走爬也不敢爬，他就背着她走，背过这个桥多少多少钱。那时候逃难的多呀，就形成这样。过那大凌河桥，过来以后就是国民党地区了，桥东边就是八路军地区。回来这几年好啊。刚回来什么都没有，房子也没有。房子等于是当给人家了，先得把房子要回来。回来以后为了要这房，跟杨福科（音）还捣乱，当时那时候我都不知道，使了人家600多斤小米，那时候净说米不说钱，把房子让人家住着，这回来要房，不还得给人家600多斤小米啊？那时候咱哪有小米啊？那时候吃粮食都是拿粮票买。那咱说给他钱吧？人家不要钱，要钱也行，就是小米折价，那时候就得是钱多了，咱说那市价，人家不干。后来我还是跟他经过工商局了，那时候有军代表，69年乱的时候，还有军代表呢。通过一了解，人家说那就照市价，可是照市价人不干，不干就不腾房。可那时候私买粮食的那个价，咱们不叫现在钱这么宽敞，咱出不起，后来又找的私人说了说，等于是折了中，也别按私的也别按官的，给了人家多少钱呢我也忘了，不到25块钱我记得。那时候粮食还是便宜的。把这房子赎回来咱就有窝了。
贾楠楠：那时能吃饱了吧？
贾福田：回来反正好坏吧能凑合吃饱。
贾楠楠：以前在外地的时候呢？
贾福田：在外地的时候我就在农场的时候受败。在农场的时候算是受劳教管教的时候，我说说这段历史，你们听着也有意思。我是58年去的，58年咱们家农村这儿成立了高级社，人们吃大锅饭。可是我们在农场没有，在农场58年、59年还都能吃饱，虽然不算监狱吧但和监狱也差不多，劳教所，反正能吃饱，平常日子窝头，两个礼拜休息一天，休息这天也许是吃顿馒头，也许是吃顿大米饭。这是在60年以前。我们在农场60年4月1号开始粮食定量，58年、59年没问题能吃饱，一定量（就吃不饱），你想我们都是重体力劳动，都是三十多斤四十几斤，但是吃不饱，但越来越紧越来越紧，到60年冬天的时候根本就是你也不知道吃多少，反正一顿那么大的小窝头给你两个，到冬天活少了就两顿饭，早上一顿饭俩（窝头），晚上一顿饭俩（窝头），究竟吃多少不知道，反正吃不饱。农场那时候已经开始能生产粮食了，60年那年我们打的粮食那主要还是种水稻，水稻确实打得不少，我们在厂里打水稻干了一冬天，这劳教人员败（饿）得受不了啊，就吃生的，我跟他们说，60年那时候是生东西，麦子、棒子、水稻、豆类这一类的东西，我们出去干活都吃生的。过麦子的时候生吃麦子，揉吧揉吧就吃了，完了一边吃一边干，你要不吃就受不了，特别是冬天。我跟他们讲，你说是麦子好吃还是稻子好吃？顶数稻子好吃，比麦子好吃。稻子在冬天的时候啊，我们在厂里干活，地上冻的，你把稻子往地上一撂，用脚搓，那就没皮了，成大米了。但不完全成大米，就成百分之八九十，然后顺势一攘，就装到兜子里头。干了一天就这些。吃的那个稻子，要是给做成大米饭，你吃不完，但你吃那个也不叫饱，也不叫饿，回去打给你饭的时候，俩小窝头也好，一个小窝头也好，反正都吃了。上厂里去干活，进厂就吃，一直吃到歇了，还想法偷着带回点去，带回去以后就炒炒吃，就不生着吃了。就是60年，那时候我就有这个想法，什么年间我出去，能有一顿大米粥，酱稠稠的，那时候我们在里头全是用的小盆子，全弄的这么一盆子粥，吃饱了，死了也就不冤了。真败坏了，败的人们浮肿。那时候咱年轻，不碍事，就是败得慌。我记得有一次，家里和你大爷在北京去看我，带的自己烙的小火烧，还有去了以后在食堂里使粮票买的吃的，我们60年的时候吃的粮食不赖，都是大米面，就是不给那么多，（他在食堂）买的大米面窝头，当着他我不好意思，等他走了以后有一天晚上，我说我今天晚上吃个饱吧，半宿了睡着觉了我起来了，一个棚里头四个人呢，不敢闹什么动静，就在被窝子里拿着吃，我记得我吃了二十个，说二两一个吧，连自己烙的火烧和买的窝头，我吃了二十个，什么感觉啊？我就感觉到胃里头沉甸甸的了，但是还想吃，这就是我挨饿的时候。也没想到60年挨饿成那样，要那时候身体得落下毛病，你看我现在75了，我还挺精神的。咱们这一辈子和你们不一样，你们真是福里生福里长。这是在农场，60年。再说一段充民工的事儿。那时候咱们在家里头就是吃高粱面，吃山药片，都在上河，上河挣的工分还多一点，就不吃家里的了。咱们村那时候就轮班，轮到你就得去，你不去就得雇人，轮到咱了上清河（音）去了一趟，上唐山去了一趟，唐山地震以后第二年去的。充民工那个时候吧，充了民工受点罪，受啥罪呢？那时候就跟榨油似的，你不使劲不出油，非使劲才出油。使民工就跟牛一样，不加鞭呐你不迈。那时候上河去给你规定，今儿十三方，明儿十三方，完不成熬夜，熬一宿你也得熬。我就是那时候受点苦。我有一次从唐山回来，我记得我跟咱们公社带工的说我得早走两天，那时候早走你从唐山西边丰台火车站上车，那时候你上北京去你得有证明才能卖你票，没证明不卖你票，我就跟那带工的说，我提前走两天，我上北京去一趟，我去看看我哥哥，就这么回去转个弯，开了这么个证明，到丰台车站才卖你票，不然不卖你票。就这么去了。去了以后冤得慌，真的冤得慌，在唐山受的罪比在农场受的都厉害，就是跟牲口一样，你完不成你就熬夜，一宿宿熬。
贾楠楠：那是哪年的事儿啊？
贾福田：唐山地震至今30周年了，我们第二年春天去的，就是说至今29年了，在唐山挖河的时候，真的是跟牛一样，不完成就得熬夜，这老人都知道，分给你十方，必须今天得推完，你推不完就得熬夜，你熬到明第二天还得接着干，他们使人比监狱还厉害。我到了北京以后跟我个侄女一边说着一边掉泪，我那侄女也掉泪，我在农场劳教我都没受过这罪，劳教起码就八个小时，干完干不完就歇工了，你这个他妈不行，现在不挖河了，挖河那时真是当牛使唤呢。现在胡锦涛比咱们那时候都强，那时候老毛，我上唐山的时候老毛下去，换的是谁，不管怎么弄，反正那时候真是够呛，真是受了罪了，现在不挖河了还好。
贾楠楠：挖河那时候能吃饱吗？
贾福田：吃饱了。吃饱是吃饱了，就是完不成任务。必须得完成任务，吃随便吃。我就是在挖河的时候受的罪。吃饱是吃饱了，就是干活干不完不行，当牛使唤。一般都是春天的时候，我记得是春天，四点钟就鸣了，干一半的活回来吃饭，吃了饭接着还干，吃饭的时候就一个钟头，那一天一天地完不成任务，完不成任务就鏖战，当牛使唤。……（此处省去闲聊）
贾福田：那时候不交公粮，工商局押着来交公粮。你不交？你不交就揍你一顿，调起你来，捆起你来，弄到公社里关几天。你敢不交？你现在不用交了，（政府）还给你点呢，能说不好吗？那时候就是不好。
贾楠楠：对对对。
贾福田：我刚才说你不懂，我那个劳教原因就是教会，他就说你反对宗教政策，实际上咱对宗教政策就是不满意，为什么不满意？因为他这个宗教政策相反咱们天主教的教义。你看咱们现在这个天主教有地上地下两个社，你听说过吧？为什么俩社呀？
贾楠楠：这就不知道了。
贾福田：我跟你讲这么回事儿，天主教有个组织叫天主教爱国会，这个天主教爱国会不是咱们教会自发出来的，说我们教会自己成立一个天主教爱国会，不是我们自己自发出来的，是政府强加给教会的，成立这么一个组织，叫你入这么一个组织。这个组织我们不说他是错误的，但它的宗旨是错误的，它的宗旨是什么呢？是“独立自主自办教会”，可是跟我们天主教的教义不一样，我们天主教的教义是“至一、至圣、至公，从宗徒传下来的教会”，全世界不管你是哪一个国家的人，也不管你是哪一个民族的人，你要是信仰天主教，你就得归天主教的罗马教皇管，我们天主教也不分国籍，不分民族，也不分种族，世界上就只有一个天主教，天主教就跟一个国家一样。梵蒂冈就是天主教的中心，等于是天主教的首都，在意大利罗马那个城边上有这么一块地，那个地方不属于罗马不属于意大利，而是属于梵蒂冈，梵蒂冈谁是首领啊？就是教皇，你既然是一个天主教徒，你就必须得听教皇的，教皇叫怎么做你就得怎么做。可是为什么说爱国会跟教会教义相反呢？它是“独立自主自办教会”，独立起来，我们不听你的，自主就是我们想怎么做就怎么做，你说的那个不算，自己办，不用你的金钱，自己筹备，等于是你跟他俩事儿了，所以说现在在中国就形成了地上、地下。所谓地上，就是属于爱国会的，所谓地下就是我不听你爱国会的，我就按照我们天主教的老教办事儿，我是属于罗马天主教，属于梵蒂冈管，而不属于爱国会管，所以我在北京的时候主要就是因为这个劳教。劳教是要按照《劳动教养条例》的。我跟你讲讲这个《劳动教养条例》。它是57年8月1号国务院通过的，那时是周恩来当总理，58年有了北京市劳动教养局。不够判刑的人把你都收起来劳动教养，那时候收容的劳动教养的是什么情况？你没有正式工作就够收容去劳动教养的，那时候有好多这样的，北京市的小青年啊上了年纪的男的，没有正式工作，没有厂子，就去劳动教养。当时一开始劳动教养我们学《劳动教养条例》就说，不够判刑的就让你去劳动教养，之后劳动教养就像是一个就业的办法。我58年4月28号收容的，半年以后就放了一批，放的那批都是无业游民，就是因为没有正当职业收容的人。放了可是在农场不让你走，放了就是解除你的劳动教养了，但是你得留厂就业，回不了家。这是那一批最早的了，无业游民，也找不出人家什么毛病，就是没有职业，这样的半年以后就放了。剩下那些都到63年，5年以后了才开始放。当时是说没期限，什么时候改造好什么时候放人。正好58年年底放了一批，59年就开始闹中苏分裂，60年开始闹饥荒，61、62 到63年才开始放了第二批，这一批可就盼着吧，老也改造不好了，放完了以后才给你定期限。该放的都放了，不该放的又给你定期限，最多三年，以前几年的都白搭。头一批倒是半年就放了，后来就没放，到了62年以后才放的。放了以后，就开始有定期了，你还需要改造半年，他还需要改造一年，给你定的期。到了期限就放你。放可是放，不让你回家，还得留场就业，农场需要。我是63年结束教养的，在那儿就业好几年，我是67年才回来的。回来以后政策又变了，共产党这个政策就这样，67年全厂开了个动员大会。什么意思？就是说你们这些人集中在金山县上，不适合于备战备荒，需要把你们这群人疏散到全国各地，原籍是哪里的就输送到哪里去，你属于广东的回广东，属于安徽回安徽，都回原籍了。就是原籍属于北京的、天津的、上海的走不了，三大直辖市，那时候农场还能留他们。我这个属于河北的，只能走人，最后一批放的河北。河北那一批我记得包了一辆火车，从茶淀开车，天津、昌州、德州、衡水、石家庄，又转回来保定，到涿州，转了这么一下，都是河北的，就算送你回来了。送回来的时候我记得给了170块钱安家费。那时候这是农场，农场不管怎么着比挖河强，挖河真是受不了，真是当牛使唤，受了好多罪。我在农场没掉过泪，挖河真掉过泪了。你干不完，受气啊，大话不敢说。你干不完熬夜，吃倒是吃饱了，东西吃饱了但你干不完，没那么大体力。
贾楠楠：你还记着小时候在长春发生过什么事吗？你忘不了的事？
贾福田：在长春忘不了的事儿啊？有。我在长春45年就逃过一回难，45年日本投降，长春算是特别市，那时候日本占东北的时候长春是首都，长春还有个故宫呢，那时候溥仪就在长春那儿。45年日本8月15日投降，投降以前长春市民也是逃难，我们家也逃难。我记得那时候我没有我母亲了，我跟着我父亲，我父亲带着我和我妹妹我们俩，从长春走出去五十里地，到农村了，在一个车站上住了几天，后来日本就投降了。投降了我没去，我妹妹还去看看呢，日本人怕你中国人欺负人家，有一次他们去看，日本人自杀，真厉害，人家也敢，自己杀自己，我没敢去。大人先把自己的孩子捅去了，然后自杀。长春逃难逃回来的时候是47年了。还有一个记忆，那时候我们47年以前，也可能是46年，反正是个阳历年的晚上，那时候有信，因为城外是八路军城里是国民党，城里住着国民党新七军，那里头有一个搞电信的，有一个信教的，我忘了叫什么的，有一次他上咱们家去看到圣像，说“你信教呀？我也信教。”投降那天晚上国民党的兵就出来了，出来了在我们东边有一片日本投降前占领的房子，那楼房都破坏了，他们就在楼房里头埋伏起来了，等半宿的时候八路军老没信，八路军没信他们就撤回去了，我记得我们院里还有个保安队，那保安队是国民党的杂牌军，不算正规军队，在我们院有几个，就占着那房子，那时候你不敢不让占，那时候有一个姓黄的，一个娘们，叫她上我们那屋去睡觉，过半夜里头就听见有枪声响了，八路军进来了，咱也不敢出去，就在屋里头听着枪声响，后来听着大院子里也有枪声。后来他们进来叫了叫门，那保安队都跑了，不跑的也就在那儿装老百姓。叫门你不给开还不行，就去开门，开门就要个斧子。他们进去以后不走大街，都是蹿墙头，第二天早晨你看见这家通到那家，那家通到这家，在院里走，他防止枪弹。要完斧子以后就说回去吧，第二天早晨一早就撤了，撤了以后我去看看老黄那屋咋回事，那里还有一个保安队的没走，就是装老百姓的，后来看见那屋里头地上有炒米，他们都是随身带着炒米充饥。我记得一早上我大哥去了以后一关门，看到门后头还有一个箱子，我大哥就拿了。当时那个小子在屋里没管就让我大哥拿走了，后来保安队的人回来了，要那个箱子，还要动枪，我大哥就把那个箱子给他了。我记得把我们那个院东边那个木头门拉走了，那时正冷的时候，估计是拉伤员时候拉走的。他们在老黄那屋包扎伤员，包扎好了走不了了就拉走了，第二天就撤了。就这么闹腾了一宿，头半夜没动静，头半夜要是有动静国民党的新七军在那儿埋伏着呢，后来下令撤了他们进来了。也是吓人呐。那会我记得我们那屋一个子弹穿了个窟窿，卷了一朵棉花，就掉在我嫂子身上。我嫂子说怎么耗子还出来了，其实第二天早上一看是一朵棉花卷了颗子弹，也没有劲儿了，从窗户进去的，穿了个小被子，卷了朵棉花掉在她身上了。其实不是耗子，是子弹。反正这几十年也过来了，这阵叫是好多了，也不发愁吃了，也不发愁喝了。还有呢，我们是弟兄仨，我还有二哥，我是老三，我大哥死了，老二当兵到现在没信。到现在不至死不知活，49年解放前参的军，到现在。
贾楠楠：没信了？没联系过？
贾福田：没联系过。他在外头参军，捎回家来个证明，在北京参的军，村里都知道。
贾楠楠：他哪一年参的军？
贾福田：49年。早没音信了。
English Transcript
Interviewee: Jia Futian, Male (b. 1936)
Interviewer: Jia Nannan
Date: 2010-08-10
Location: Yangjiazhuang Village, Hebei Province
Jia Futian: I grew up in Changchun and went to elementary school when I was around 8 or 9 years old. After 3years at school—it was under Kuomingtang’s regime—I had to quit because of my family’s economic condition. Why? Because there were all kinds of tuition, just like these days, too expensive, we decided that I should quit, as we couldn’t afford it. The condition was not as good as these days. After three years of elementary school education, I quit and stayed at home helping my second and oldest brothers. My dad was still at home back then. We had a big cart, a horse-drawn cart, so we drove the cart in Changchun. Back then there was no automobile or tractor, only horse-drawn carts. We drove our cart after trains.
Jia Nannan: Like a taxi?
Jia Futian: No, it was not taxi. There was no such a thing back then. We carried goods in our cart. In 1947 during the Siege of Changchun, Kuomingtang’s troops were inside the city, while the Chinese Communist Party’s Eighth Route Army were in the suburb. The Eighth Route Army did not open fire in Changchun, but encircled the city and forced Kuomingtang to surrender.
Jia Nannan: How old were you?
Jia Futian: I was younger than 10 years old in 1947. I was born in 1936, which means I was 11 in 1947. During the Siege of Changchun when the Eighth Route Army were in the suburb and Kuomingtang were in the city, all the daily necessities and other stuff had to be transported from the countryside. Grains and vegetables were not allowed at all. The aim was to encircle Changchun and force Kuomingtang to surrender. I escaped from Changchun in the third month of the Lunar Calendar. During that time many citizens of Changchun fled the city like a wind and escaped to their hometowns. There were lots of people from Shandong Province living in Changchun, but not many from our Hebei Province. I mean, there were still lot from Hebei, but not as many as those from Shandong. Those with a house sold the house, while those without sold other belongings so that they could have money to flee. In the third month of the Lunar Calendar of 1947, I escaped. When we left the city, the Eighth Route Army allowed people to freely enter or leave the city. The siege was not that strict yet. You were even welcomed by the Eighth Route Army when you escaped. On the other hand, although Kuomingtang did not let people leave, they were very corrupted. Therefore, if you were willing to spend some money, you could find someone to help you escape, but that’s all they would do. The Eighth Route Army, however, even welcomed you. When we escaped the city, your great-grandpa still had a property left, so he did not ask for money when he sold it to one of my cousins. He asked him to come with us but he refused. During the siege things inside Changchun were worthless and couldn’t be sold, therefore he decided to leave the house to him. He did not have a house of his own, so he moved there. I remember the amount we got from selling our properties included the number 7, but I don’t remember whether it was 70 or 700 thousand. It was the Kuomingtang’s currency. I remember there was a 7. We gave the property to him, and sold as many things as possible. I remember we bought three horses and two carts, and then left Changchun. Once we escaped from Changchun, we ran directly to the south of Shanhai Pass. We didn’t even need to ask for direction. Everyone on the national road was running in the same direction. We spent over 40 days on the road until we got home, sometimes walking, sometimes riding the train. Only areas controlled by Kuomingtang had railroads. I remember we walked all the way from Changchun to Tieling, which was all controlled by theEighth Route Army. Tieling was not yet liberated, so once we reached Tieling we could ride a train. Areas controlled by the Eighth Route Army did not have railroads. We went from Tieling to Shenyang on the train, spent several days in Shenyang, and then rode the train to Xinmin County, which was west to Shenyang. Starting from Xinmin County the area was under the Eighth Route Army’s control, all the way till another city (I cannot remember the name), which was not liberated yet. We then rode the train from there to Tianjin. We originally planned to stay in Tianjin instead of coming home, but the situation was also quite chaotic in Tianjin, therefore it was difficult to find a job that couldf eed the whole family. I was still very young. Your second grandpa and your oldest grandpa proposed to go to Beijing. I had an aunt, my fourth aunt, from Lijiazhuang, in Beijing, so we all went to her place, trying to see if we could find a job there. However, we still could not find a job. There was no way to feed the family, so we came home from Beijing. When we came home from Beijing, we still had some money left, so we rented a mule-driven cart. The one that we bought earlier had already been sold. We rode this rented mule-driven cart and came all the way from Tianjin to home. The whole trip took over 40 days. There were days on the road as well as in rest. We rode with train, but also walked.
Jia Nannan: What happened after you came home?
Jia Futian: After we came home, because the older generation hadn’t divided up the family property, we and your grandpa decided to do that. Our family got half of the property. The east half of our old family house belongs to our family, while the west is yours. …….(Chitchat; omitted)
Jia Futian: After we divided up the property, we stayed at home for another two years before we returned to Changchun. We went back to Changchun in 1951. We came back home in 1947. The country was liberated in 1949. After the liberation in around 1951, we went back to Changchun and stayed there for two years. I was doing some business with my elder brother, but the people from the Tax Bureau always came to talk to us. We hadn’t changed our hukou yet, so we eventually decided to move. We moved, together with our hukou, to Beijing and settled down there. What did I do in Beijing? I rode tricycle for six years. There was no public bus system in Beijing yet, only human-powered tricycles for transporting goods and humans. I left Beijing in 1958. Why did I leave? It had something to do with my religious belief. It was because I believe in Catholicism. I left Beijing on April 28, 1958, charged with reactionary thoughts. In fact I just expressed my disapproval of the government’s religious policies. I will not go into details on this, because you won’t be able to understand. Anyways, because I was unhappy with the religious policies, I was charged with reactionary thoughts. I was then forced to leave Beijing and sent to reeducation through labor. Where was I sent for the reeducation through labor? Qinghe Farm. There was a wasteland to the east of Tianjin, which was near Chadian Station on the Jinshan Railway Line. The wasteland was to the west of Chadian, with a reed pond. Beijing Public Security Bureau opened a farm there and sent me there. I stayed on the farm for seven years before I came back home. I came home in 1969, which has been 41 years. I remembered one thing during our way of fleeting. When we walked to Jinzhou, Liaoning Province, there was a river called Daling River in the east. To the east of Daling River was Eight Route Army’s area, while to the west was Kuomintang’s. The bridge over the Daling River had already been exploded into pieces, so no train or bus could pass it. What was left of the bridge was only the railroad part, no ordinary road left. If people wanted to pass the bridge, they had to climb the railroad bridge, which was quite scary. The local people tied the railroad bridge with iron wires and sleepers, so in theory people could pass that bridge. We decided to crawled over that bridge too. I was very young back then. The bridge was in fact quite wide. Although in theory people could pass it, those who were not brave enough wouldn’t dare to stand up and walk over the bridge, but had to crawl. There were local people who earned money from carrying people across the bridge on their back. For example, there were steamed buns or steamed white rice. This was before 1960. Starting from April 1, 1960, the grains were rationed. In 1958 and 1959, we had no problems with filling our stomach, but once the grains were rationed, (we could not eat till we were satisfied). You see, all we did was heavy manual labor. We had to carry over 30 or 40 Jin of goods. However, we could not have sufficient food, and the supplies were more and more scarce, more and more scarce. In the winter of 1960, you had no idea how much you ate. For each meal you would get two small pieces of steamed corn bread, around this big. When in the winter we had less work to do, we would only receive two meals: two pieces of corn bread in the morning, and two in the evening. We had no idea how much we ate exactly, but all we knew was we were hungry. During that time, the farm had already produced grains. In 1960 we mainly harvested rice. In fact we harvested a large amount of rice. For the whole winter we were harvesting rice on the farm. When the people in the labor camp starved too badly, they started eating raw rice. I always tell others, in 1960 we ate lots of raw things, wheat, corns, rice, and beans. When we went to work, all we ate was raw food. When we harvested wheat, we would eat raw wheat. We would rub the grains and eat while working. If you did not eat, you would not survive, especially in the winter. I ask them which tasted better, wheat or rice. Of course rice. Rice tastes much better than wheat. In the winter when we were working there, the ground was frozen, so we threw the rice onto the ground, and rubbed the bran off with our feet. Then there was your processed rice. Well, not completely processed, but 80 to 90 percent. Then we put the rice into our pockets, and ate it after a whole day of work. The rice we ate, if made into steamed rice, was more than enough. However, if you only ate the raw rice, you could not feel full, though not hungry either. Later when you went back to the canteen for dinner and go tone or two small pieces of steamed corn bread, you would still eat them. When you went to work in the field, you started eating once you entered there and would not stop until you finished work. Some people even tried to steal some grains with them so that they could cook them when they got back and did not have to eat raw grains all the time. In 1960 I had a thought, when I had a chance to leave that place, I wanted to have a whole pot of thick rice congee, very thick. When we were in the labor camp, there was a typeof pot that we used. All I wish was to eat a whole pot of rice congee till I was full, then I would feel satisfied even if I died. People were truly starving, and some even developed edema. I was still young during that time, so I didn’t really care, although I starved badly. I remember once when your uncle went to Beijing to visit me, he brought some homemade clay oven rolls as well as some grains he bought with ration coupons from the labor camp’s canteen after he arrived. In 1960 the grains we had were not bad—all rice flour, though the supply was scarce. I was too shy to eat the steamed rice buns (he bought in the canteen) in front of him, so one night after he left, I told myself that I would eat till I was satisfied that night. In the middle of that night, I got up after everyone went to bed. There were four people living in one room, so in order to not make noise, I ate the buns under the quilt. I remember I ate 20 pieces, 2 Liang each, including the homemade clay oven rolls and the buns bought from the canteen. I had 20. How did it feel like? I felt like there was some weight in my stomach, though I still wanted to eat. This was how starving I was. However although I starved badly back then, I did not develop any diseases. Look at me. I’m 75 years old now, but I’m still quite vigorous. Our generation is different from yours. Your generation is really fortunate. That was on the farm, in 1960. Let me tell you the stories when I worked as a migrant worker. That was when we still ate sorghum flour and sliced yams at home.All the work was carried out on the river.If we went to work on the river, we could earn more work points and did not need to eat at home. During that time the villagers here had to take turns to work on the river. If you did not want to go, you would have to hire someone to go. When it was my turn, I went to work in Qing River and in Tangshan. I went to Tangshan the year after the great earthquake. When I was working as a migrant worker, I suffered a lot. What kind of suffering? They treated you as if you were oil seeds and tried to squeeze as much oil out of you as possible. They treated the workers like cows that wouldn’t work without a whip. While working on the river, the rule was you had to move 13 cubic meters of soil. If you could not finish your task, you had to work in the evening, even though it might mean you had no sleep. I suffered a lot during that time. Once when I came back from Tangshan, I remember I told the person-in-charge of our commune that I wanted to leave two days early. Back then if you left early, you took the train at Fengtai Station to the west of Tangshan. During that time if you wanted to go to Beijing, you needed a certificate to purchase train tickets, otherwise no one would sell you the tickets. I told that person-in-charge that I needed to leave two days early so that I could go to Beijing and visit my brother. Therefore I managed to get a certificate which enabled me to buy a ticket at Fengtai Station. The life during that time was really difficult. I suffered more in Tangshan than on the farm. We were treated like animals. If you could not finish your tasks, you had to stay up all night and worked.
Jia Nannan: What year was that?
Jia Futian: It has been 30 years since the Tangshan Earthquake. We went there the spring after the earthquake, which means it has been 29 years. When we were digging the river in Tangshan, we really worked like cows. If you could not finish your tasks, you had to work in the evening. All the old people know about that. If you were assigned with 10 cubic meter, you had to finish the task tonight, otherwise you had to work in the evening. If you worked till the next morning, you still needed to work during the daytime. They worked people even harder than the prison. When I arrived in Beijing and told my niece about this, I kept crying when talking, making her cry with me too. I did not suffer this much even when I was in the labor camp. In the labor camp, we worked for 8 hours everyday and we could stop even if we did not finish the work, but it was not like that at all when we worked on the river. These days no one needs to dig the river, but back then people were treated like cows. Hu Jintao is better than the leader during that time. Back then the leader was Old Mao, but when I went to Tangshan, someone else substituted Old Mao, though I cannot remember who that was. Anyways, that was a tough time. I suffered a lot. It’s much better now that we don’t need to dig the river.
Jia Nannan: When you were digging the rive, did you have enough food?
Jia Futian: Yes, we did. Although we had sufficient food, we could not finish the tasks. We had to finish the tasks, though we could eat as much as we wanted. The only time that I suffered was when I went to dig the river. Although we could eat as much as we wanted, we had too much work to finish and were treated like cows. It was usually in the spring, I remember it was in the spring, when the day started at 4 o’clock in the morning. When we finished half of the task, we came back to have lunch, and went back to work after lunch. We had an hour of lunch break. In those days there was so much work everyday. If you could not finish you work, you had to stay up and worked. ……(Chitchat; omitted)
Jia Futian: Back then if you did not deliver the tax in the form of grains to the state, people from the Administrative Bureau for Industry and Commerce would come and talk to you. If you refuse, they would beat you up. They would tie you up and detained you in the commune for several days. How dare you not to pay the tax? Now you don’t need to pay, (the state) even gives you some. How can you say the state is not good? But back then it was really bad.
Jia Nannan: Yes, you are right.
Jia Futian: I said earlier that you wouldn’t understand. The reason why I was sent to reeducation through labor was because of the church. They said you opposed the religious policies, and in fact I did disapprove. Why? Because the state’s religious policies were against the creed of our Catholic church. You know now there are two churches of the Catholics, one above the ground one underground. Why are there two?
Jia Nannan: I have no idea.
Jia Futian: Let me explain it to you. There is a Chinese Patriotic Catholic Association, which, however, was not spontaneously founded by us Catholics. It was not like our church itself decided to establish this Patriotic Catholic Association. It was, in fact, forced by the state and asked you to join such an association. I cannot say this association itself is wrong, but its mission is wrong. What is its mission? It is to have an “independent, self-governed and self-administrated church”. This is different from the creed of our Catholicism, which declares the Church to be “One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic”. No matter what your race, nationality and ethnicity are, as long as you believe in Catholicism, you are under the rule of the Pope, the Bishop of Rome. For us Catholics, no matter what our race, nationality, and ethnicity are, we only believe in one Catholic Church. The Catholicism is like a country. Vatican is the center of Catholicism, which functions like the capital. There is such a piece of land next to the city of Rome. It does not belong to Rome or Italy, but to Vatican. Who is the leader of Vatican? The Pope. As long as you are a Catholic, you have to listen to the Pope, and do whatever he asks you to do. So why is the Chinese Patriotic Catholic Association against the creed of the Catholic Church? Its mission is to an “independent, self-governed and self-administrated church”. By “independent” it means we don’t listen to you. “Self-governed” means we can do whatever we want without obeying your rules. “Self-administrated” means we don’t need your money and we fund ourselves. Therefore it means the association and Vatican are totally two different things. That’s why there are two churches in China, one above the ground and the other underground. The one above the ground is the Chinese Patriotic Catholic Association. The underground one means I don’t listen to your Chinese Patriotic Catholic Association and I still do things in the traditional Catholic way: I belong to Roman Catholics, under the rule of Vatican, not the Chinese Patriotic Catholic Association. This is why I was sent to reeducation through labor in Beijing. The reeducation through labor had to follow a Regulation of Reeducation Through Labor. Let me tell you about this regulation, which was passed at the State Council in August 1, 1957 when Zhou Enlai was the Prime Minister. In 1958 the Beijing Bureau for Reeducation Through Labor was established. Those whose charges were not heavy enough to be sentenced were all sent to reeducation through labor. What was it like during that time? If you did not have a formal job, you were qualified to be sent to reeducation. There were many such cases. Many young people in Beijing, when they reached a certain age but still had neither a formal job nor a workplace to go, would be sent to reeducation. Later the reeducation through labor became more like a way to solve unemployment. I was taken in on April 28, 1958. In half a year, a batch of people, who were taken in because they did not have a job, were released. However, they had to stay on the farm. Being released means one was no longer under reeducation through labor, but you had to work on the farm as an employer rather than going back home. That was the earliest batch, all jobless—their only charge, released in half a year. The rest of us were not released until 1963, that was 5 years later. In the beginning they did not give you a time limit: you would be released once you were fully transformed. It happened that in late 1958 a batch of people were released, then in 1959 the Sino-Soviet relationship began to deteriorate, and in 1960 the famine started. Therefore it was not until 1962 or 1963 that the second batch of people were released. The rest had been waiting for a long time, and it seemed like they would never be considered fully transformed. After the second batch was released, they started to inform people of their time limit on the farm. The longest was three years, but the early years on the farm did not count at all. The first batch was released in half a year, but later no one was released until after 1962. After the second batch, they started to assign time limit to people. For example, some people had half a year to go, while others had one more. However, although you were released once your time limit was up, you had to stay on the farm and worked, because the farm needed people. My reeducation ended in 1963, but I was employed as a worker there for several years and did not come home until 1967. After I came back, the policy changed again—the policies of the Communist Party are always like that. In 1967 the farm had a mobilization meeting. What does that mean? It means gathering all you people in the Jinshan County was not suitable for getting prepared against war and natural disaster. Instead, you people needed to be dispersed all over the country: everyone should be sent back to their ancestral hometown. If you were from Guangdong, then you went back to Guangdong. If you were from Anhui, then you went back to Anhui.Everyone went back to their ancestral hometown. However, those from Beijing, Tianjin, and Shanghai—the three municipalities directly under the Central Government—did not leave and stayed on the farm. I am from Hebei, so I had to leave. People from Hebei were release as the last batch. I remember they booked a whole train for people from Hebei. The train left from Chadian Station, passed by Tianjin, Changzhou, Dezhou, Heshui, Shijiazhuang, and then turned back to Baoding and Zhuozhou. That was the route of the train, all in Hebei. Finally you were sent home. When I was sent home, I remember I was given 170 Yuan as the settlement fee. That was the time on the farm. No matter what, working on the farm was till better than digging the river. I suffered too much when digging the river, just like a cow. I did not cry when I was on the farm, but I cried when I was digging the river. You could not finish the work and you were bullied, but you did not dare to say anything. You had to stay up late and work if you did not finish your tasks. Although we had enough food to eat, we did not have that much strength and therefore could not finish all the tasks.
Jia Nannan: Do you still remember things in Changchun when you were a child? Is there anything that you cannot forget?
Jia Futian: Anything in Changchun that I cannot forget? Yes. In 1945 in Changchun, I already fled once. In 1945 when Japan surrendered, Changchun was considered a special city, because it was the capital of the north-east China occupied by Japan. There was also a ForbiddenCity in Changchun, where the last emperor Puyi used to live. On August 15, 1945, Japan surrendered. Before the surrender citizens in Changchun also fled, including my family. I remember my mother had already passed away at that time, so I was following my father. My father brought my sister and me, left Changchun and walked for over 15 miles until we reached the countryside. We spent several days at a train station until Japan surrendered. After the surrender, I didn’t go to watch it, but my sister went. The Japanese worried that the Chinese might take advantage of them, they told me once after they went to see the surrender, so the Japanese killed themselves. They did dare to do that, killing themselves. I was not brave enough to watch it. The adults first killed the kids, then killed themselves. It was 1947 when we fled here from Changchun. There is another thing. It was before 1947, probably in 1946. One night we got visited by someone. Back then the Eighth Route Army was outside the city while the Kuomingtang’s New Seventh Army lived inside the city. There was someone from the Kuomingtang’s army working on telecommunication who was also religious. I don’t remember his name, but once when he was at my home and saw the Icon, he told us, “do you also believe in God? Me too.”At the night of surrender, Kuomingtang’s army came out and hid in a house in the east, which used to belong to us before the Japanese occupation but had been destroyed. They waited for a long time but did not see anyone from the Eighth Route Army, so they retreated. I remember they left a security team in our courtyard, which was not a regular army. There were several people there, occupying the house. You did not dare to refuse them. There was a woman whose last name was Huang, and they asked her to sleep in one of our rooms. After midnight we heard gunshot, and then the Eighth Route Army entered. We did not dare to leave, so we just stayed inside the room, listening to the gunshot. Later we also heard gunshot from the courtyard. Then they asked us to open the door. The security team had already left. Those who did not have enough time to leave were pretending to be ordinary people. When they asked to open the door, you did not dare to disobey. Once you opened the door, they asked for axes. They did not walk on the street after they came in, but smashed walls. The next morning you saw that many people’s houses were connected, and they only needed to walk in the courtyard to avoid bullets. After they got the axes, they sent us back. They all left on the next morning. After they left, I went to check the room where Huang stayed. There was a member of the security team there who pretended to be an ordinary people. Later we saw parched rice on the floor of that room, because they all carried parched rice with them in case of hunger. I remember in the morning when my eldest brother went there and closed the door, he saw a box behind the door, so he took it. The man who was in the room did not stop my brother from taking the box, but later when other people of the security team came back, they asked for the box. They threatened to fire the gun, so my brother gave the box back to them. I remember the wooden door in the east side of the courtyard was taken away. It was very cold at that time. We guess it was probably taken when they carried the injured soldiers. They took care of the injured soldier in the room where Huang stayed, and carried those who could not walk. They left the next day. It all happened in one night. It was very quiet in the first half of the night. If they made any sound in the first half of the night, Kuomingtang’s New Seventh Army who was hiding there would make moves. Later they received order to retreat. It was quite scary. I remember a bullet went through our room, carried with it some cotton, and fell on my sister-in-law. My sister-in-law said how come a rat came out, but when we checked the next morning we realized it was in fact a bullet wrapped in cotton that lost its momentum. The bullet went through the window and then a quilt, finally fell on her, wrapped in cotton. It was not a rat, but a bullet. Anyway, I’ve survived all these years after all. Life is much better these days, as we no longer need to worry about food or drink. Well, another thing. I actually have two elder brothers. I’m the youngest. My eldest brother passed away, while my second brother went to join army and we never heard from him again. We still don’t know if he’s dead or alive. He joined the army before the liberation in 1949.
Jia Nannan: Never heard from him at all?
Jia Futian: No. He joined the army when he was outside, and sent home a certificate. He was in Beijing, and the whole village knew that.
Jia Nannan: When did he joined the army?
Jia Futian: In 1949. We have lost contact for a long time.
