被访人: 宋秋英(女，1928 年出生，山东省滨州市阳信县商店镇邹家村)
采访人: 邹雪平(女，1985 年出生，草场地工作站驻站)
采访时间: 2010 年 3 月 01 日
采访时长: 29 分 26 秒
平:就是 58 年时。
宋: 是 58 年嘛!我也不知道是啥时候，我那天不是和你说过嘛!我说，挨那个饿，我去要 饭的，道(路)上躺着老多人，挑河的很多，就是踢一脚也不动弹，挨那个饿。去郑家 店要饭的，在宗家村剜那个蔓菁(野菜)，个人的包袱都让人家夺了去，挨那个饿。你 说说，吃那个糠，吃那个菜，菜、糠也没有啊，就是去地里剜那点菜，去地里剜那个麦 蒿，吃了一集(5 天)，到以后人们不挑沟了，没啥吃了，还是挨饿啊。好嘛你长恩爷 爷饿得爬不起来，摔在那里，俺的老人家死了，俺爹死了，以前成连家那不是有个门嘛! 在东屋那边，一下子摔在土台子上，没有爬起来，他(长恩爷爷)都爬不起来的。到以 后，吃食堂的时候就好点了，吃食堂吃那个麻僐，吃那个糠，吃那个菜咱就说不了了。 随着去地里菜那点菜，家来吃。俺大小(儿子)都饿死，俺大小都十一了，俺的孩子采 那个榆叶，孩子吃了娃娃(树上的虫子)了，饿死了，那时候十一了，妮，你说啥法啊! 没有法，我说来，可是挨了那个饿了，吃那个菜都没有。俺一气跑到俺姐村里，俺背了 一包袱菜来，俺扒拉扒拉给俺的孩子吃。我说来妮啊，我挨得饿说真事吧，吃糠盐菜有 嘛!吃糠也没有啊，吃菜也没有，到以后吃食堂了就差点了，那就不挨饿了。
姚奶奶 (村民) 都在食堂里，切那个南瓜，采来菜掺上麻僐，看见你就快着给你攥点菜 给你，人家司务长(当时村里的干部)看见还不干呢，(她)都是偷给俺点，南瓜、生 南瓜、生东西，快着切块给你，快着去一边吃的，就是这么着。你说，妮，早已把锅揭 了去，啥东西都弄出去，早已那些人们，早已不是西曾当司务长。到以后，锅也给你揭 了去，啥也都给你弄出去，你煮点菜都没有，没有家设(工具)。到以后俺姨夫在大桑 给俺买了一口锅，俺这才好歹的煮点菜吃，就是这么样啊。妮啊，可受了那个罪了。哎 呦，煮菜吃，都以后俺姨夫来了，在大桑给俺买了一口锅，就煮点菜吃，锅就是两口锅， 一口十银锅，一口八银锅，都给俺弄出去，簸箩也给弄出去，锅也给揭出去，都给砸了， 都砸了，那个十银锅弄到食堂了，那个八银锅给摔了，就是这么样啊，不念大人孩子都 饿死呢，俺饿死好几口子人。
宋: 俺爹，俺好几个孩子，俺大小十一了，饿死。饿得你长恩爷爷差点死的，这就好歹的以 前吃食堂，玉堂没有把窝头票给我，没给我，人家搁在食堂了，一个窝头票打一碗粘粥， 一舀子粘粥。以前玉堂那时，一个窝头票，给俺抢了抢锅里的噶吱(锅底)，给他吃了， 这比那一舀子粘粥还强了，这么样才好歹的养起他来，这没死了，俺老人家死了，奶奶 也死了，孩子大小(儿子)十一了，也死了。小孩子那个就说不了了，那个他小死了， 就罢了，俺老人家饿死，俺大小饿死，饿死那些，就是我没死，好歹的我带着这些孩子。 他(丈夫)去挑沟的，分的菜蛋蛋子，你长恩爷爷(丈夫)还省下家来给这些孩子吃呢， 省下给孩子个蛋蛋吃啊，大人吃嘛! 大人舍得吃嘛。到以后了，这吃食堂了，多少给你 打点粮食，这算好歹的救过命来了。俺大小 (大儿子) 钻在屋里，黑夜去找俺孩子的: 小 (儿子)，去哪了?(他)钻在俺大叔那个小北屋里，就贴这个道，他盖了个小北屋， 社里把一些花生搁在那个北屋里，人家都把花生的巴(头)摘了，俺的孩子钻在里面， 他在里面摘那个刨个子，装了一口袋子，到以后说:小，你去哪里?俺没去那里，俺在 那个屋里摘花生刨个子(花生壳)来，这么样孩子装了家来，我说来，到以后(他)死 了，就是他躺在那里，他姑，春官、云官来了，那时候孩子快死了，躺在那里，(他说) 你弄那一碗饭搁在那里做啥?我说:小(儿子)，哪里一碗饭啊?他说:这不是嘛!就 是拍着，这不是嘛!我说:小(儿子)，若有一碗饭我不就给你吃了吗?我还搁在那里 嘛!(他说)娘，我死了你别哭啊，你哭啥哭，反正是死了，这么样，孩子到死这么样 啊!
我说那时候，俺的老人家饿的头一天，不吃啥，我说: 爹，你咋了。哎呦，干渴啊!我 说:你干渴?你饿吗?不饿。我说:你饿，我一气跑到商家店，花了 5 毛钱，买了一 油罐子菜。到以后给他吃了一碗，我一气跑了去又跑回来，去商家店，那时候又没有车 子，我说这一碗菜给你热热，就是在管子(饭店)里面买的，一油罐子菜，你吃上这一 碗，到那一早晨，完了(他死了)。长顺就说:嫂子，咱爹叫不反应。我说:咋了?叫 不反应。到以后，我说:买了一罐子菜来，吃了一碗，给他舀出一碗，吃了，好了，我 说:再给他舀上点水，吃上那一碗菜，这么着就不碍事了，缓过来了，还剩下一碗。到 第二早晨，他又不行了，这咋?
到以后再给他吃吧，“哎呦，不吃了，不喝了，走啊!”就说了一个走，不吃了，那又吃了 那点菜，我说，饿死好几口子人，哎呦……我说来妮，说起来的时候，操他娘啊，我现在也忘点子了。你长恩爷爷真是饿得爬不起来了，俺奶奶、俺公公，俺奶奶不是饿死的 嘛!还吃那个棉花种，倒在炕上，那个棉花种，你寻思寻思还吃进去吗?光吃那个棉花 种，吃不进去啊，俺这好歹的那个时候还年轻，吃点棉花种搁在碾上压压，去到处的地 里采那个水稗子(树上的种子)，搁在碾上压压，采才采多少啊，吃那个水稗子(树上 的种子)，那个好吃，水稗子(树上的种子)，那上面有仁，那个好吃，你说才吃这么一 点，采这么一点搁在碾上压，还吃过来吃嘛!我说那时候，我说来，妮啊，我这八十三 了，我说这还不错，活到现在，那时候不叫啥的话也饿死了，那时候就是爬不起来了。
宋: 我也都爬不起来了，看看你长恩爷爷，孩子都倒在炕上，看看脱了睡觉了，都一把骨头 了，我还胖吗?你说说，计着孩子吃，光计着着孩子，你说咱还吃吗?我说来，过年初 一吃上点饽饽子，三十吃上点饽饽子，造成初一又吃上点饽饽子，光计着孩子吃啊，总 共就推十斤麦子，你到哪里啊，早已都入了社，俺分不着麦子，就给了二十斤麦子，你 说这二十斤麦子推推到哪里啊，除了浮子，干嘛给了客人去，说来，妮来，我现在忘点 子了，现在稀里糊涂忘点子了，哎呦，饿死好几口子人。
俺老人家 (爹) 死的时候还没吃食堂，到以后才吃的食堂。俺老人家(爹)死的时候， 还没入社，到以后才入的社，俺老人家(家里的长者)都死了。俺婆婆(死)那时，俺 十七娶的，那时候长顺才 7 岁，银官、柱官、春官，还有俺奶奶，还有他爷爷。俺婆 婆死的时候四十八岁，长顺才 7 岁，春官是十岁还是十一啊，银官十三，还有俺家里 的他奶奶，她爷爷都死了。那时候还没入社，到以后才入的社，俺也忘点了，受那个苦 就不用说了。今年是八十三，过了生日就八十四了。受那个苦多了，可受那个苦。
Interviewee: Song Qiuying (Female, b. 1928, Zoujia Village, Shangdian Town, Binzhou City, Shandong Province)
Interviewer: Zou Xueping (Female, b. 1985, Caochangdi Workstation)
Interview Date: March. 1st, 2010
Interview Site: Home of Song Qiuying
Interview Length: 29 minutes, 26 seconds
In the original Transcripts, the interviewer is referred to as Ping, and the interviewee as Song
Ping: Granma Chang’en, you can just talk about being starved, simply your own experiences.
Song: There’s too much to tell about being starved.
Ping: Just about the year of 1958.
Song: Yes, 1958! I don’t know when exactly, haven’t I told you the other day? I told you, I went out begging because I was starving, and many people (reservoir workers) were lying on the road, not moving a bit even if you kicked them. I went begging in Zhengjiadian, digging wild vegetables in Zongjia Village, and someone stole my bag. No wild herbs no chaff, we could only dig the ground and get some flixweed, what we ended up eating for five days. Later people no longer worked on the reservoir, and still starving. Grandpa Chang’en (Song’s husband) was so hungry that he could not stand up, and fell. Wasn’t there a door at Cheng Lian’s home? He fell on the table in the east room and could not stand up. My father also died. Later, life got a little better when we ate at the mass hall, there were “mashan” (Ping’s note: made of peanut oil’s waste, usually for feeding animals), chaff, and herbs, I don’t need to talk about that. I followed people to get some herbs from the field and took them home. My son also starved to death, when he was already eleven years old. He ate the worm on the elm leaf and died. What to do! Nothing to do, and nothing to eat. I got so angry and ran to my older sister’s village and carried back a bag of herbs for my child. To be honest, did we have chaff and wild herbs (kangyancai)? There was neither chaff nor wild herb, not until the beginning of the mass hall.
Grandma Yao (a villager) was in the mass hall, cutting pumpkins and mixing herbs with “mashan”, and when she saw you, she would quickly give you some. Because the mess officer (a cadre in the village) didn’t allow that, she gave us secretly. Cooked pumpkins, raw pumpkins, raw things…she would cut a piece for you quickly and you also eat it quickly. All the pots had been taken away, everything was out, and you had nothing to cook with. Not until my uncle bought me a pot in Dasang did I become able to cook a bit. That was so much torture. [Sigh], I only had two pots before, and both of them were taken away, including the baskets. One pot was taken to the mass hall, and the other was smashed. That’s how it was, regardless of how adults and children were starving, and quite a few died in my family.
Ping: Who are they? How many people died?
Song: My father, a number of my children, including my 11-year-old son. Your grandpa Chang’en almost died. At the mass hall, Yutang did not give me the tickets for steamed corn bread (wotou), but left them at the mass hall, and one ticket could exchange for a bowl of congee. Yutang used a ticket and fought for some at the bottom of the pot, so Chang’en ate it and became better. My father died, my mother-in-law died, and my son died. Let’s not talk about the child, the son who died, just forget about that, they all died and only I survived with these kids. My husband went to build reservoir and got food, he saved them for the children. How could adults eat these themselves? Later at the mass hall, we had some food and survived. Sometimes I looked for my son at night, who hid in my uncle’s house. The Commune left peanuts in the house, and my son dug in the peanut shells and packed them in a bag. I asked him “Where did you go?”, and he answered “nowhere, I brought peanut shells from that room”. Later when he was about to die, he would lie there, and his aunt, Chunguan, Yunguan, had all come here. He asked “What are you doing with that bowl of rice over there?” I said “Son, what bowl of rice?” He said, “There it is, there it is!” while hitting the bed. I told him, “Son, I would have let you eat it if I had a bowl of rice. Why would I leave it there?” Then he said, “Mom, Don’t cry after I die, don’t cry, I will die anyway”. That’s how my child died!
Back then when my father starved for the first day, he did not eat a thing. I asked him what was wrong, and he said “I’m thirsty”. “Thirsty? Are you hungry?” “No”. “Yes, you are hungry”. Then I ran to a shop and bought a jar of vegetables with fifty cents, and later gave him a bowl of that to eat. There was no car or anything then, I just ran there and back. I told him that I bought the jar of vegetables at a restaurant, heated a bowl for him, but somehow he died the next morning. Changshun told me “Sister-in-law, father is not answering me”. Later I said, “I’ve bought a jar of vegetables, he had eaten one bowl and had some water, it should be fine, and there is still one bowl left”. But he was not fine the next morning, what to do? He just ate that little and then asked me to leave. [Sigh]…when I think of these things, fuck that, I’ve forgotten some now. Your grandpa Chang’en really was too hungry to stand up, my mother-in-law, my father-in-law, didn’t my mother-in-law starve to death? She ate cottonseed and fell on the bed. Do you think cottonseed was edible? You can’t just swallow the cottonseed. Luckily I was still young then, and I grinded the cottonseed, and also a kind of seed on the tree, which was better. I just survived with those. I lived until eighty-three years old now and that’s not bad. I could have as well died then, I also was too hungry to stand up.
Ping: You could not stand up?
Song: No, I could not. I would look at your grandpa Chang’en and my children, who were lying on the bed, then I would also take off my clothes and go to sleep. I was all boney, could I possibly be fat? I only thought about food for the kids, how could I myself eat? In the New Year, there were steamed buns for a few days, and all given to the children. We only had 10 jin of wheat in total, we joined the Commune long ago and were not distributed much wheat. We got 20 jin and some were given to guests. I’ve forgotten now, [sigh], a good number starved to death.
When my father died, the mass hall did not begin and we had not yet joined the Commune. When my mother-in-law died, Changchun was only seven, Chunguan was ten or eleven, and Yinguan was thirteen. So much suffering, no need to mention. I’m eighty-three now and will soon be eighty-four, I’ve suffered so much, so much.