原文抄录
被访人：齐炳洪，男，1933年出生，云南省昆明市富民县款庄乡蒣谷玉学山村
采访人：吴文光，男，1956年出生，草场地工作站驻站
采访时间：2010年8月19日
采访地点：齐炳洪家
采访时长：50分14秒
采访原文抄录（访问人吴文光简称“吴”，被访人潘宗美简称“齐”)：
吴：你有80多了？
齐：83了。
吴：身体还好了吧。
齐：也不算好。你有50了吧？
吴：55。你耳朵不聋，眼睛不花，身体好，你是玉学山岁数最大的？
齐：是。
吴：你有重孙了？
齐：有孙子。
（以下讲家里闲话。略）
吴：你记得伙食团的事吧？
齐：记得了嘛。
吴：你给我讲讲嘛》
齐：伙食团的事，开天辟地（开始）是五八年，干“大协作”，又不分村，集中一起干。伙食团吃饭，不易啊！开始好些，后来就不行了，昏吃了（吃得糟糕）。
吴：怎么吃得不好？
齐：掺芭蕉根、大料吃。
吴：什么是大料？
齐：就是山里那些野生的（植物），挖出来，刮刮，洗洗，和包谷、豆掺一起吃。
吴：吃得饱吗？
齐：肚子饿么，样样都得吃。要是肚子不饿么，那些东西咋个吃得下。
吴：你被饿过了没有？
齐：饿倒没有饿，就是吃的丑（差），吃芭蕉根，吃大料。
吴：够吃吗？
齐：不管够不够，每顿饭称给你吃，八两，够吃不够吃，每顿就这些。
吴：当时为什么要吃伙食团？
齐：为哪样吃伙食团，说不清，当时就是毛主席、党的政策，不成立伙食团的话，那个劳力就集中不起来，办起伙食团，各个村子的劳力就集中起来了嘛。有了伙食团，家家户户都要去打饭吃，你家里又没得粮食，粮食完全是集体管着。我们被集中在马街（靠近当时公社所在地的一个村，距离大约七公里），开会，动员，然后一起去割谷子，每人分一拢地割。割得快的，就奖励。
吴：奖励什么？
齐：奖励毛巾、笔记本、水笔、一把镰刀。
吴：那阵是大跃进时期？
齐：对。
吴：住在什么地方？
齐：在哪里干活就住哪里，村子家里只留下老人和娃娃，都去干“大协作”。
吴：干了多久？干了他妈的有几个月，从马街一直割，把沈家村（村名）、热水塘（村名）、多宜甲（村名）、蒣谷地（村名）的谷子一路割过来，都割完掉，再上我们玉学山来砍（收）包谷。包谷砍好，也不收，就丢在地里。有良心的人么，就好好干，没得良心的人么，就说不成了，浪费多了，干到哪个村子就在哪个村子吃，吃伙食团。
齐：干了几个月。连夜三更的干，苦得狠。
吴：你喜欢这样干吗？
齐：唉，哪个喜欢干。政策是这种，党的政策要之行嘛，不干不行嘛。
吴：你当时结婚了？
齐：结了。
吴：你媳妇也去干了？
齐：没有，我媳妇在家。
吴：“大协作”干活是吃食堂？
齐：在哪个村干就在哪个村食堂吃。每个生产队都有一个食堂，干完活就拿着碗去吃饭。
吴：那阵你有多少岁？
齐：有20多。
吴：有娃娃了没有？
齐：有了。
吴：当时你入党了没有？
齐：入了，我五八年就入了。
吴：哦，你当时积极了嘛？哪个是你的介绍人？
齐：多宜甲的一个，姓潘，当时公社一个干部，动员我入党，我就问他，入了党有哪样好处？他说，可以领导群众嘛。
吴：你是50多年的老党员。入党有没有好处？
齐：没有什么好处。那时和现在的形势不一样。我从五五年就入党，那年就当队长，当了十多年，后来又干保管员，一直到“土地下户”（指1980年）才没干。那个时候，我积极了嘛。我从解放起就当干部，当了好多年，但做什么、吃什么，出去开会吃饭，都是自己掏腰包，不学现在这些干部，有钱才当干部，没得钱就不干。
吴：伙食团为什么下放？
齐：后头伙食团干不下去了，粮食是有的，就是不拿给你吃。
吴：为哪样不给吃？
齐：调给别的地方了，老实点的村子，粮食就被调走了。
吴：拿就吃不饱了？
齐：吃不饱。
吴：怎么办呢？
齐：就肚子饿了嘛？
吴：咋个饿？
齐：只有支着（忍着），有多少吃多少。
吴：拿娃娃呢？
齐：只有大人省给娃娃吃。
吴：猪样能不能养？
齐：猪羊鸡狗，一样都不得养，不准养，家里连锅灶都没得，只留得碗筷，去伙食团打饭吃，
五七年以前，自家种地，牛羊也是自家的。
吴：人民公社是什么时候成立的？
齐：五七年。
吴：之前呢？
齐：各家种各家，各家吃各家的。
吴：后来就归集体了？
齐：“入社”开始（成立农业合作社），地就归公了，牛羊赶到一起，评下价，管多少钱，就入社了，样样都合并一起。合并以后，又把牛羊分下来养，哪家养几条牛，哪家养几只羊，分下来养，但不是私人的了，是队上的，属于集体的了。
吴：集体以后，能不能分到点钱？
齐：没有钱。
吴：土改是哪一年开始？
齐：是五七年……
吴：不对，那是大集体，应该是五二年五三年。
齐：对，是五三年，分田分地。
吴：玉学山当时有没有地主富农？
齐：没有。都是中农、贫农。
吴：你家呢？
齐：我家是祖辈贫农。
吴：你家分了多少地？
齐：分了十多亩。
吴：是分了哪家的地？
齐：玉学山这里的地，都是下面坝子的玉学堂（一个私塾学堂）的地，玉学山的人都是租他们的地来种。
吴：这里的人都是租地种，怎么会有中农？
齐：没有地，有牛马，你的“阶级”就上去了。
吴：谁来评成份？
齐：是工作组，开会，说让每家自己“认阶级”（指地主富农贫农成份），他（工作组的人）翻着本本说：你有多少田地，多少牛马，还有哪样哪样，让你自己先“认阶级”，“自认阶级”，如果觉得自己有牲口，日子好过点，就认自己是“中农”、“上中农”，如果有田地了，就说是“富农”，就是这么认的。我们这个玉学山，只有几家，像陈家、吴天培家、杨发有家、黄继财家是认“中农”。其他都是认“贫农”和“下中农”。是自己认，没得哪个卡着（强迫）你。
吴：你对文革的印象是什么？
齐：文革么，就是开会多，三天一会，两天一会，活计都干不成，毛主席死下去公社开会，粉碎四人帮也去开会，毛主席死的那个会还要搞宣誓，说，誓死紧跟毛主席。
English Transcript
Translated by Torrance Yang, Georgia Tse, and Michael Liu
Interviewee: Binghong Qi, Male, Born in 1933, Sunguyuxueshan Village, Kuanzhuang Town, Fumin County, Kunming City, Yunnan Province, China
Interviewer: Wenguang Wu, Male, Born in 1956, Caochangdi Work Station
Interview Date: August 19th, 2010
Interview Site: Qi’s Home
Interview Length: 50 minutes and 14 seconds
In original interview transcripts, the interviewer Wenguang Wu is referred to as “Wu”, the interviewee Binghong Qi as “Qi”.
Wu: Are you over 80 years old?
Qi: 83 now.
Wu: Are you still well?
Qi: Not really. Are you 50 years old now?
Wu: 55. Your ears are still working, your eyes can still see, and your health is still good. Are you the oldest person in Jade Mountain?
Qi: Yes.
Wu: Do you have great-grandchildren?
Qi: I have grandchildren.
(The next part discussed family matters – Omitted)
Wu: Do you still remember the commune canteen?
Qi: Yes. I do remember.
Wu: Could you tell me a bit about it?
Qi: The commune canteen started in 1958 when we did “the great collaboration”, regardless of villages, everybody just worked together. Dining in the commune canteen was not easy, the food was good at the beginning but turned really bad later on.
Wu: What was bad about it?
Qi: The food was flavorless and we mixed in basioo root and aniseed.
Wu: What is aniseed?
Qi: It’s the wild plants up on the mountain that we would dig up, scrap clean, and wash to eat with beans and corn.
Wu: Could you eat enough to be full?
Qi: When you’re hungry you must eat anything you can find. If you were not hungry, the food would have been impossible to eat.
Wu: Have you been starving before?
Qi: I was never starving but ate poorly then. I ate basioo root and aniseed.
Wu: Was it enough to eat?
Qi: No matter what, you are fed with food by weight, 8 liang (400 grams). It may or may not have been filling enough. This was the allocated amount for each meal.
Wu: At the time, why did you have to eat in the canteen?
Qi: Why we had the commune canteen? Nobody knew exactly. That was the policy by Chairman Mao and the Party. If we did not have the commune canteen, we would not get all the laborers together. With the commune canteen, labors from the villages in the vicinity are all organized together. Within the commune canteen, every family had to get meals. You cannot have food at home. Food is in the custody of the working team. We all stayed at Ma Jie ( a village close to the community, about 7 kilometers away). We had meetings, motivational speeches, then harvested millet together with everybody taking care of a part of the field. If you worked fast, you would get some prizes.
Wu: What were the prizes?
Qi: Towels, notebooks, pens, or a sickle.
Wu: That was during the Great Leap Forward period?
Qi: Yes.
Wu: Where did you live?
Qi: You lived wherever you worked. The babies and old people were left at home in the villages. Everyone went to do “the great collaboration.”
Wu: How long did you do this?
Qi: I did this for a few damn months, harvesting millets from Ma Street, through ShenJia Village, ReShuiTang Village, Duo Yi Jia village, all the way to Xugudi Village. Then, we went to Yuxue Mountain to cut corns. After cutting down the corn, we didn’t harvest it, just left it on the field. The conscientious people did their work well, the others, well, I can’t even begin to describe, they were very wasteful. Whatever village we worked at, we ate there in the commune canteen.
Qi: I worked for a few months, day and night, suffered a lot.
Wu: Did you like working like this?
Qi: Ay! Who would like working like this? That was the Party’s policies, you had to work, there was no other option.
Wu: Were get married then?
Qi: Yes, I was.
Wu: Did your wife go work too?
Qi: No, she stayed at home.
Wu: While working for the “great collaboration,” did you eat at a canteen?
Qi: We ate at whichever village we worked at. Every production team had a canteen, after you were finished with work, you would bring a bowl there to eat.
Wu: At that time, how old were you?
Qi: Over 20 years old.
Wu: Did you have kids yet?
Qi: Yes, I did.
Wu: Did you join the Party then?
Qi: Yes, I joined it in 1958.
Wu: Oh, were you enthusiastically involved? Who introduced you?
Qi: A person from DuoYiJia Village with the surname Pan, who was an cadre in the commune, persuaded me to join the Party. So I asked him, what benefits are there from joining the Party. He said, you could lead the people.
Wu: You have been a veteran Communist party member for over 50 years. Were there any benefits in joining the Party?
Qi: There really weren’t any benefits. The situation then is different from now. I joined the party in 1955, and till then I had been a leader for over ten years. Later I became a warehouse guard, and worked all the way until the redistribution of lands to households (in 1980). At that time, I was very involved. Since the Liberation, I had been a cadre in the commune for many years, but whatever I did, whatever I ate, whenever I had meals at the meetings, I paid out of my own pocket. Not like the cadres today, who only work if there is compensation, if there isn’t money they won’t do it.
Qi: The commune canteen couldn’t do it anymore, they had the food, but they just didn’t give it to people.
Wu: Why wouldn’t they let people eat?
Qi: They gave the food elsewhere. If the people were more obedient, the village’s food was taken away.
Wu: So you couldn’t eat enough?
Qi: No, not at all.
Wu: What could you do then?
Qi: You just had to be hungry.
Wu: How hungry?
Qi: You just had to put up with it, only eat as much as there was.
Wu: What about children?
Qi: Only adults saved food for children to eat.
Wu: Were you allowed to raise pigs?
Qi: We weren’t allowed to raise pigs, goats, chickens or dogs. We didn’t even have a stove. All we had were bowls and chopsticks, so we had to go to the commune canteen for food. Before 1957, every family had a farm and their own oxen and goats.
Wu: When were the People’s Communes established?
Qi: In 1957.
Wu: What about before then?
Qi: Every family farmed their own land, and ate their own food.
Qu: But later everything was collectivized?
Qi: After establishing the agricultural cooperatives, all the land was taken over by the state. All oxen and goats were herded together and priced. No matter how much they were worth, they were taken by the State. Everything was collectivized. After they were collectivized, the oxen and goats were then distributed back to the people. Each family was given a certain number of oxen and goats to raise. However, the livestock didn’t belong to us anymore, they belonged to the collective group.
Wu: After the collectivization, was money rationed?
Qi: There was no money.
Wu: In which year did the land reform begin?
Qi: I believe it was 1957.
Wu: No, that was agricultural collectivization. The land reform should have been 1952 or 1953.
Qi: Right. It was 1953 when the fields and land were distributed.
Wu: Did Yuxue Mountain have any wealthy peasant landlords at the time?
Qi: No. Only middle class peasants and poor peasants.
Wu: How about your family?
Qi: My family and ancestors have always been poor peasants.
Wu: How much land was distributed to your family?
Qi: About 10 acres.
Wu: Which family’s land did you get?
Qi: All the land in Yuxue Mountain belonged to the Jade School (a private school) down the Bazi. The people of Yuxue Mountain rented this land to farm.
Wu: If all the people here rented land to farm on, how can there be middle class peasants?
Qi: Even if you didn’t have any land, but had oxen or horses, you would be considered higher “class.”
Wu: Who decided the social classes?
Qi: It was determined by the party working team. At meetings, we were told that every family would determine their own class status (which included landlords, rich peasants, or poor peasants). They (the party working team) flipped the rulebook and said: “Think of how much farmland you own, how many oxen or horses you own, or whatever you have, when you determine your own class status. If you think you have livestock and your life is easier, then you should consider yourself a middle class peasant or upper middle class peasant. If you own land, then consider yourself a rich-peasant. Class status was determined in this manner. In Yuxue Mountain, there were only a few families, namely the Chen family, Tianpei Wu’s family, Fayou Yang’s family, and Jicai Huang’s family, that considered themselves middle class peasants. Everyone else considered themselves poor-peasants or lower middle class peasants. You determined this by yourself, nobody forced you into a social class.
Wu: What is your impression of the Cultural Revolution?
Qi: Ah, the Cultural Revolution. There were a lot of meetings, meetings every three days, sometimes every two days. You didn’t even have time to work. There was a meeting with the commune when Chairman Mao passed away. There was also a meeting when the Gang of Four. was smashed. During the meeting for Chairman Mao’s death, we even had to say vows, such as “We pledge our lives to following Chairman Mao.”
